JDCJJ
Senior Member
Posts: 831
|
Post by JDCJJ on May 29, 2024 10:35:38 GMT -6
Judge Merchan just told the jury that they do not need unanimity to convict. 4 could agree on one crime, 4 on a different one, and the other 4 on another. He said he would treat 4-4-4 as a unanimous verdict
|
|
|
Post by longtimereader on May 29, 2024 10:45:59 GMT -6
How does that legally work? This is nothing but a third world type of court but of course the leftist scum are all OK with it. That is not due process in any way shape or form. Let alone now is seems the prosecution is saying what the additional charges are?
If they can do this to Trump all of us normal people are fair game.
|
|
|
Post by 3 Sport Town on May 29, 2024 11:22:56 GMT -6
You guys really need to turnoff Fox News and watch legal experts on CNN, so you understand. I know you guys will say CNN is biased, but they have all sort of legal experts on including former Trump lawyers. They are presenting both sides. The jurors need to agree on each of the 34 charges Trump is charged with, each has to deal with a falsified business record. What they don’t need to agree on is the exact crime Trump is accused of concealing, he is not charged with those crimes just falsifying business records to cover up a crime. for instance a federal campaign violation.
|
|
JDCJJ
Senior Member
Posts: 831
|
Post by JDCJJ on May 29, 2024 11:29:33 GMT -6
You guys really need to turnoff Fox News and watch legal experts on CNN, so you understand. I know you guys will say CNN is biased, but they have all sort of legal experts on including former Trump lawyers. They are presenting both sides. The jurors need to agree on each of the 34 charges Trump is charged with, each has to deal with a falsified business record. What they don’t need to agree on is the exact crime Trump is accused of concealing, he is not charged with those crimes just falsifying business records to cover up a crime. for instance a federal campaign violation. Funny thing is I stole the thread title from Scott Jennings....of CNN.
|
|
|
Post by longtimereader on May 29, 2024 11:31:56 GMT -6
You guys really need to turnoff Fox News and watch legal experts on CNN, so you understand. I know you guys will say CNN is biased, but they have all sort of legal experts on including former Trump lawyers. They are presenting both sides. The jurors need to agree on each of the 34 charges Trump is charged with, each has to deal with a falsified business record. What they don’t need to agree on is the exact crime Trump is accused of concealing, he is not charged with those crimes just falsifying business records to cover up a crime. for instance a federal campaign violation. Funny thing is I stole the thread title from Scott Jennings....of CNN. Seems 3Swallows is not listening to what the legal experts are saying on CNN since they all seem to be saying there is no case and that the DA has failed.
|
|
|
Post by Billy John Davy on May 29, 2024 11:48:55 GMT -6
What they don’t need to agree on is the exact crime Trump is accused of concealing, You realize how ridiculous that sounds? "Oh you're guilty of something, we just cant identify what that is" he is not charged with those crimes if he's not charged with them, why is the prosecutor trying to prosecute him for them? just falsifying business records to cover up a crime. This is the first time a former President has ever been tried, and the first time these actions have ever been prosecuted as crimes. The former President and current front runner in the upcoming election is NOT the case to try new first time legal theories. for instance a federal campaign violation. if it were a campaign finance violation, its under federal authority. Didnt they decline this case?
|
|
|
Post by 3 Sport Town on May 29, 2024 11:58:45 GMT -6
What they don’t need to agree on is the exact crime Trump is accused of concealing, You realize how ridiculous that sounds? "Oh you're guilty of something, we just cant identify what that is" he is not charged with those crimes if he's not charged with them, why is the prosecutor trying to prosecute him for them? just falsifying business records to cover up a crime. This is the first time a former President has ever been tried, and the first time these actions have ever been prosecuted as crimes. The former President and current front runner in the upcoming election is NOT the case to try new first time legal theories. for instance a federal campaign violation. if it were a campaign finance violation, its under federal authority. Didnt they decline this case? First all are grounds for appeal, but probably be decided after the election just like all the trial delays that have benefited Trump. Michael Cohen plead guilty of the federal campaign finance violation. The Trump defense as I understand it, is Cohen made those on his own, and the prosecution is saying he did this at the direction and approval of Trump. Do you think Cohen took out a loan on his house to payoff Stormy all on his own without Trump knowledge?
|
|
|
Post by Billy John Davy on May 29, 2024 12:01:38 GMT -6
You realize how ridiculous that sounds? "Oh you're guilty of something, we just cant identify what that is" if he's not charged with them, why is the prosecutor trying to prosecute him for them? This is the first time a former President has ever been tried, and the first time these actions have ever been prosecuted as crimes. The former President and current front runner in the upcoming election is NOT the case to try new first time legal theories. if it were a campaign finance violation, its under federal authority. Didnt they decline this case? First all are grounds for appeal, but probably be decided after the election just like all the trial delays that have benefited Trump. which was always the point; just get a conviction even if there is no chance in Hell it stands up to appeal Do you think Cohen took out a loan on his house to payoff Stormy all on his own without Trump knowledge? Yes
|
|
|
Post by longtimereader on May 29, 2024 12:02:47 GMT -6
3Swallows confirmed that the leftist Muppets are OK with this kangaroo court because it's Trump and their TDS allows their minds to accept what should be unacceptable.
|
|
|
Post by stargatebabe on May 29, 2024 12:03:41 GMT -6
How does that legally work? This is nothing but a third world type of court but of course the leftist scum are all OK with it. That is not due process in any way shape or form. Let alone now is seems the prosecution is saying what the additional charges are? If they can do this to Trump all of us normal people are fair game. It doesn't - just one more reason to toss the entire thing
|
|
|
Post by 3 Sport Town on May 29, 2024 12:17:31 GMT -6
r 54 min ago These are the jury instructions from Judge Juan Merchan From CNN Staff Judge Juan Merchan delivered his instructions to jurors before they began deliberations in former President Donald Trump’s hush money trial. Here’s what Merchan told the jury: They must not make a decision based on biases or stereotypes; They must set aside personal differences; They must not speculate how long sentencing may be or what the punishment might be – that’s up to the judge; They can’t hold it against Trump for not testifying; The “people must prove beyond a reasonable doubt every element of the crime.” He reminds the jury it must not rest its verdict on speculation; They can consider whether a witness hopes to receive a benefit related to the trial, or if they have an interest in how the case ends; They cannot convict Trump on Michael Cohen’s testimony alone because he’s an accomplice, but they can use his evidence if corroborated with other evidence; The jury must be unanimous if they find Trump guilty on each count – on whether he committed the crime personally, acted in concert with others or both; They must determine if Trump conspired to promote someone or prevent them from public office by unlawful means; They should deliberate with a view toward reaching an agreement, without surrendering individual judgement; Jurors notes cannot be used in place of evidence; The foreperson will deliver the verdict for each count after deliberations are over; They must surrender their phones, and can only discuss the case when all 12 of them are together. Merchan explained some key laws in the case: On the law applicable to falsifying business records, Merchan told the jury: "You must find beyond a reasonable doubt first that he solicited requested, commanded, importuned or intentionally aided that person to engage in that conduct and second that he did so with the state of mind required with the commission of the offense." He also explained what makes a person guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree – explaining that they must have the intent to defraud – including the intent to commit another crime or conceal the commission of one. On what constitutes a violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act: It is unlawful for an individual to willfully make a contribution to any candidate running for office, including the presidency, exceeding certain limits which in the relevant years was $2,700, Merchan tells the jury. He also walked the jury through what they must find in the different counts levelled against Trump. Merchan explained what tax law violations were and said it was unlawful for a person to willfully produce a tax statement or document that's false. www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-05-29-24/h_7b9ed6a46a6cfe0d8e26314c547d3af7
|
|
|
Post by longtimereader on May 29, 2024 13:46:56 GMT -6
So given 3Swallows resent post someone is lying about the jury instructions. For some reason I don't believe CNN is giving the full details they have a tendency to LIE when it comes to Trump. so is the original claim about jury instructions true or not? Here seems to be context: "It is more nuanced than that," Roberts wrote. "All 12 need unanimity that Trump committed a crime. But the underlying unlawful means is a smorgasbord they can pick from - and they don't all need to agree on what it was." www.rawstory.com/trump-fox-news-2668408092/Which seems to be "just agree there is a crime" but does it have to be the same crime that seems to be a NY thing that is a bit squishy.
|
|
|
Post by keefdaman on May 29, 2024 17:41:32 GMT -6
First all are grounds for appeal, but probably be decided after the election just like all the trial delays that have benefited Trump. which was always the point; just get a conviction even if there is no chance in Hell it stands up to appeal Do you think Cohen took out a loan on his house to payoff Stormy all on his own without Trump knowledge? Yes Yes. That was in his testimony. Think 3 sport had one too many to drink today. The object of the case was to take the 34 misdemeanors that past the statute of limitations and find a felony for the feds. Yes, find a felony. A city AG bypassed the city, state and took on the case for a federal crime. Something Bragg never revealed what that federal crime was. Everybody is asking what is the federal crime Trump is being accused of? Now any of you hear any clear evidence that it was more than the 34 misdemeanors and a felony was found. Now the judge telegraphed to the jury to determine a felony was committed in the "mountain of evidence"
|
|
|
Post by arative on May 29, 2024 18:19:25 GMT -6
This is a lawyer summary I read on the Internet. Shows just how corrupt the judge and DA are
The long answer: So falsifying of business records is a misdemeanor, and outside of the statute of limitations UNLESS it was performed in furtherance of another crime, in which case it becomes a felony, and is within the statue of limitations. Kind of like how drug possession turns into intent to distribute if you have a scale and baggies. The DA has charges with intent to distribute, but doesn't say what the drug he has was, and doesn't charge the person with having drugs. So now we have someone being charged the felony version of a crime without the crime being committed in the first place. This is why you'll see people shouting that there's no underlying crimes.
The "underlying crime" they allude to is election interference crimes, that had the public known about the stormy daniels shit, he might have lost, so hiding that is election interference. The problem is that the DA never charges him with election interference, because he could never win that case. But you'll notice that the DA constantly referenced it during the trial, and the judge never stopped him.
So let's bring this all together: The DA is charging add on crimes as if the base crime is there, but it isn't, and having the base crime is the only way the add-on charges reache the level of felonies. This is where the judge comes in. From the moment charges were filed, the judge SHOULD have demanded the underlying crime be charged and adjudicated as well, because without it, there's no legal or factual basis for this to be tried as felonies. He didn't. He let this go on. When the DA was bringing in witnesses like Stormy Daniels and allowing irrelevant predjudicial testimony (anything that paints trump in a bad light for the jury, but doesn't do anything to prove the facts of the case), he should have sustained defense objections. He didn't. He allowed it. When the defense wanted to bring in an expert to testify about all of this, the judge should have allowed it. Once again, he didn't.
So this is the ace in the hole. After all of the clearly predjuicial things he's done from the bench, up until this point, he STILL couldn't ensure a conviction without using the nuclear option, which is the jury instructions you see before you. Since the DA couldn't bring the case above the burden even with his help, he's lowering the burden below the DA's current level.
|
|
|
Post by bedfordforrest on May 29, 2024 19:55:03 GMT -6
You guys really need to turnoff Fox News and watch legal experts on CNN, so you understand. I know you guys will say CNN is biased, but they have all sort of legal experts on including former Trump lawyers. They are presenting both sides. The jurors need to agree on each of the 34 charges Trump is charged with, each has to deal with a falsified business record. What they don’t need to agree on is the exact crime Trump is accused of concealing, he is not charged with those crimes just falsifying business records to cover up a crime. for instance a federal campaign violation. Explain the fairness of being convicted for covering up a crime that you were never convicted of.
|
|