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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 14:01:53 GMT -6
Post by captbudman on Aug 18, 2024 14:01:53 GMT -6
As I mentioned earlier, you’d have to cut 30% of SS, Medicare, Medicaid and the military budget just to balance the budget. It’s not happening. You don't balance the budget overnight. We didn't get into this mess in a year or two, and it will take a long term effort to make a budget surplus. It can be done, though, as we saw with Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton. What you need are policies that deregulate the economy and encourage growth (we've also had periods of good growth, although with growing deficits, under Reagan and Trump). A growing economy grows tax revenue. While revenue grows, you need to actually cut the budget. Do we need to federal government to fund tranny recreation centers or many foreign governments? Eliminating actual government programs (with their high administrative costs), eliminating or significantly reducing federal departments (block grant education, giving control largely back to the communities; dramatically reduce the regulation writing bureaucrats; eliminate much of the Federal Police (we never had "Federal Police" until DHS was created), eliminate much of the armed police (does the EPA need its own SWAT team?), and cut back on much of the foreign military bases we have around the world. Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare still need to be fixed, but the best way is to repeat Reagan's method -- create an independent commission, with Congress giving it a simple Yes/No vote (no amendments). The problem we are facing, though, is we are running out of time. Our national debt is over 125% of GDP. Very soon, we'll cross the point of no return, like Argentina and other nations did.
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 14:03:15 GMT -6
Post by captbudman on Aug 18, 2024 14:03:15 GMT -6
What are the chances Trump is actually part of the deep state and is playing a role in all this? One thing that pisses me off about Trump is that he still doesn’t admit Covid was BS and the vax is deadly. Trump is the deep state. Thats why the whole thing is so hilarious.. When did Happy Hour start for you Nano?
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 14:27:57 GMT -6
Post by luvmywammies on Aug 18, 2024 14:27:57 GMT -6
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 16:09:27 GMT -6
Post by Starbuck on Aug 18, 2024 16:09:27 GMT -6
The issue is that someone has to be the President. Who do you cast your vote for us you make balancing the budget your issue? Is Ron Paul running? Nothing will change until voters force it. Write-in candidates are one option.
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 16:16:32 GMT -6
Post by Starbuck on Aug 18, 2024 16:16:32 GMT -6
Respectfully, this simply is not correct. It was Trump's executive branch who demanded trillions in unpaid for covid spending - the legislative branch simple rubber stamped it. Trump also flatly refused to have any conversation about means testing social security or raising the retirement age over time - even though some in Congress wanted that discussion. He also refused to have any conversation about ObamaCare reforms- which is another debt bomb - even though his campaign promise was exactly the opposite. Currently, he is promising "no tax on tips". And "no federal income tax on social security payments". Anyone claiming Trump has not been a huge part of the debt issue is, at a minimum, completely ignoring the facts. What unique situation happened that led Trump TO JOIN OTHERS in calling for the massive spending? The reason that obscene amout of spending was asked for is that State and Local governments (primarily in Democrat controlled areas) were locking down the economy, forcibly closing businesses. This left many people suddenly unemployed, with businesses unable to earn revenue to cover their expenses. This wasn't just a normal recession -- it as intentionally caused by politicians for political reasons. Was the spending program inefficient, biased toward political contributors, and ripe for fraud? Of course it was. That doesn't mean that some of the economic relief wasn't deserved to counter the damage government did. The problem now is that Congress, both Dems and their RINO uniparty partners, have incorporated much of the Chi-Comm spending programs into the baseline budget. Like every other government program, they never end. What we need, as Elon and President Trump discussed, was a "government efficiency panel" combined with repealing the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974. That will give the ability to finally shrink, not just reduce the rate of growth, government spending. As far as no tax on tips, social security, etc -- first, it's the people's money. The government has no money, and Congress needs to learn to do with less money. Second, we should once again return to a simplified tax scheme like we had under Ronald Reagan -- lower tax rates and massively reducing credits and deductions. I doubt we'll see a "flat rate," but his 3 rates is about as close as we've seen in my lifetime. Let's correctly characterize what happened. It was Trump himself who ordered the shut-down. 15 days. Then 30. And then he made, for all practical purposes, Fauci the acting president. Fauci /Trump then demanded trillions of dollars for bribe and force states to comply with a myriad of illegal orders. Too late, Trump recognized his own stupidity - and has been blaming others ever since. As for tax policy, I agree the less the better. But let's not pretend this a principled stance on Trump's part. He heard it a few weeks ago from a complete random stranger at an event in Vegas - and decided to use to as a bribe for votes.
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 16:30:37 GMT -6
Post by Starbuck on Aug 18, 2024 16:30:37 GMT -6
The "both sides do it" argument is lazy and doesn't hold up to scrutiny, and I'm hearing a lot in discussions about inflation. Note this argument almost alwasy presents itself in defense of Democrats. The CARES Act was genuinely bipartisan and signed by Trump. $2.2T The American Recovry Act was passed without a single GOP vote and signed by Biden. $1.9T The Infrastructure Act was passed with only two GOP votes and signed by Biden. $1.2T The Green New Deal cum Inflation Reduction Act was passed without a single GOP vote and signed by Biden. $0.9T That yields a scorecard of $2.2T for the GOP and $6.3T for the Democrats. We have a clear "winner" here. Yes, a trillion here and a trillion there, soon you're talking about real money. Of the two political parties, we have one that wants to spend and spend like crazy (see above) and another that professes it doesn't want to spend but lacks the backbone to resist. Given the choice, I will support the latter as it can potentially help strengthen a backbone, while support of the other only encourages them. That choice is clear. Or, I suppose one could choose to do nothing or support a party which will have no effect at all. Either way, that is a path for pussies, IMO. You are correct about the CARES Act. But you failed to mention the 1.9 trillion stimulus bill, which was an addition. That bill included, among other things, a $1200 payment to very adult, a $1000 payment for every dependent, an additional $400 bonus on top of every unemployment check, and hundreds of billions in direct payments to states, counties, and cities. Fact is, Trump spent just over 4 trillion on completley unnecessary and unpaid-for bailout spending. Now, check your math above for Biden. 1.9T + 1.2T + .9T = 4 trillion. Not seeing any difference at all in either party's willingness to spend, nor do I see any objection to debt from either "side". They are one and the same.
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oedipustex
Senior Member
Posts: 736
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 17:42:21 GMT -6
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Post by oedipustex on Aug 18, 2024 17:42:21 GMT -6
The "both sides do it" argument is lazy and doesn't hold up to scrutiny, and I'm hearing a lot in discussions about inflation. Note this argument almost alwasy presents itself in defense of Democrats. The CARES Act was genuinely bipartisan and signed by Trump. $2.2T The American Recovry Act was passed without a single GOP vote and signed by Biden. $1.9T The Infrastructure Act was passed with only two GOP votes and signed by Biden. $1.2T The Green New Deal cum Inflation Reduction Act was passed without a single GOP vote and signed by Biden. $0.9T That yields a scorecard of $2.2T for the GOP and $6.3T for the Democrats. We have a clear "winner" here. Yes, a trillion here and a trillion there, soon you're talking about real money. Of the two political parties, we have one that wants to spend and spend like crazy (see above) and another that professes it doesn't want to spend but lacks the backbone to resist. Given the choice, I will support the latter as it can potentially help strengthen a backbone, while support of the other only encourages them. That choice is clear. Or, I suppose one could choose to do nothing or support a party which will have no effect at all. Either way, that is a path for pussies, IMO. You are correct about the CARES Act. But you failed to mention the 1.9 trillion stimulus bill, which was an addition. That bill included, among other things, a $1200 payment to very adult, a $1000 payment for every dependent, an additional $400 bonus on top of every unemployment check, and hundreds of billions in direct payments to states, counties, and cities. Fact is, Trump spent just over 4 trillion on completley unnecessary and unpaid-for bailout spending. Now, check your math above for Biden. 1.9T + 1.2T + .9T = 4 trillion. Not seeing any difference at all in either party's willingness to spend, nor do I see any objection to debt from either "side". They are one and the same. You changed the argument. It is Democrat vs. Republican, and your additions have not changed the balance.
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 17:51:46 GMT -6
Post by Starbuck on Aug 18, 2024 17:51:46 GMT -6
You are correct about the CARES Act. But you failed to mention the 1.9 trillion stimulus bill, which was an addition. That bill included, among other things, a $1200 payment to very adult, a $1000 payment for every dependent, an additional $400 bonus on top of every unemployment check, and hundreds of billions in direct payments to states, counties, and cities. Fact is, Trump spent just over 4 trillion on completley unnecessary and unpaid-for bailout spending. Now, check your math above for Biden. 1.9T + 1.2T + .9T = 4 trillion. Not seeing any difference at all in either party's willingness to spend, nor do I see any objection to debt from either "side". They are one and the same. You changed the argument. It is Democrat vs. Republican, and your additions have not changed the balance. No, your match was simply wrong. You listed 3 items for the DEMs and incorrectly totaled them as 6 trillion, when the correct figure was 4 trillion. You listed the CARES Act under Trump, but ignored his added bailout/stimulus plan - and those 2 items also come to 4 trillion. Since I never argue it is impossible for me to change one. I simply shared correct facts. Further, the issue is not "Democrat vs. Republican". It is "Democrats & Republicans against America." And, of course, the loyalist partisan voters who keep it that way.
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 18:00:14 GMT -6
Post by luvmywammies on Aug 18, 2024 18:00:14 GMT -6
You people arguing over left vs right don’t realize they are both controlled by the same people. They are wings of the same plane.
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 18:34:17 GMT -6
Post by captbudman on Aug 18, 2024 18:34:17 GMT -6
What unique situation happened that led Trump TO JOIN OTHERS in calling for the massive spending? The reason that obscene amout of spending was asked for is that State and Local governments (primarily in Democrat controlled areas) were locking down the economy, forcibly closing businesses. This left many people suddenly unemployed, with businesses unable to earn revenue to cover their expenses. This wasn't just a normal recession -- it as intentionally caused by politicians for political reasons. Was the spending program inefficient, biased toward political contributors, and ripe for fraud? Of course it was. That doesn't mean that some of the economic relief wasn't deserved to counter the damage government did. The problem now is that Congress, both Dems and their RINO uniparty partners, have incorporated much of the Chi-Comm spending programs into the baseline budget. Like every other government program, they never end. What we need, as Elon and President Trump discussed, was a "government efficiency panel" combined with repealing the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974. That will give the ability to finally shrink, not just reduce the rate of growth, government spending. As far as no tax on tips, social security, etc -- first, it's the people's money. The government has no money, and Congress needs to learn to do with less money. Second, we should once again return to a simplified tax scheme like we had under Ronald Reagan -- lower tax rates and massively reducing credits and deductions. I doubt we'll see a "flat rate," but his 3 rates is about as close as we've seen in my lifetime. Let's correctly characterize what happened. It was Trump himself who ordered the shut-down. 15 days. Then 30. And then he made, for all practical purposes, Fauci the acting president. Fauci /Trump then demanded trillions of dollars for bribe and force states to comply with a myriad of illegal orders. Too late, Trump recognized his own stupidity - and has been blaming others ever since. As for tax policy, I agree the less the better. But let's not pretend this a principled stance on Trump's part. He heard it a few weeks ago from a complete random stranger at an event in Vegas - and decided to use to as a bribe for votes. I'm glad that we can see more closely on tax policy. However, when it comes to the actions of the Federal government, you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Trump didn't order a shutdown of the economy. Trump did stop people from flying into America from foreign countries -- First from China, and then expanding to other nations, including eventually the EU and UK. Let's also remember what was happening at that time. Covid and spread in China, with the Chi-Comms locking down the City of Wuhan (the city where the Bio-Lab that it escaped from is located). Many people were dying in China, and there were concerns as the virus spread around the world. People were getting sick in places outside of China in Asian nations (South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, and Thailand). The virus then spread to Iran, and in Europe it was very bad in Italy before moving to France and Spain. Deaths then starting happening in America. Because our doctors didn't know much about the virus, there were actions to slow its spread. Trump's 15 Days to Stop the Spread were Fauci-inspired CDC Guidelines. Nothing was mandated by the Federal Government. There were also recommendations about "good hygiene," and for schools to be closed (going to remote learning) if there were evidence of the virus spreading. However, the Federal Government did not order any business to close. It was the individual states that did that. Democrat Governors and Mayors were the most aggressive in closing businesses, largely in hope of sinking the economy so that Trump would be defeated in 2020. For example, Gov Walz shutdown of restaurants, bars, museums, night clubs, churches, but specifically exempted Planned Parenthood. Walz was happy with women killing their unborn children, but wouldn't allow living ones to be baptized. In other places like hair salons/barbershops, hardware stores (but not big box stores), facilities for weddings, and schools were shut. Walz limited the number of people who could be in a home during Thanksgiving, and set up tip lines so neighbors could rat out other neighbors (just like the Stasi in east Germany did). Trump got bad advice, but did a lot in response to recommendations such forcing companies to make masks and build ventilators (recall the fear that America wouldn't have enough ventilators?). It was because State and Local governments -- and not the Federal Government -- that actually shutdown the economy and put people out of work on the scale of the Great Depression that there was wide-spread, bi-partisan calls for the government to help rescue those that the government harmed. In hindsight, a lot of what was done was simply wasteful and filled with fraud.
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oedipustex
Senior Member
Posts: 736
Member is Online
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 19:00:56 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by oedipustex on Aug 18, 2024 19:00:56 GMT -6
You changed the argument. It is Democrat vs. Republican, and your additions have not changed the balance. No, your match was simply wrong. You listed 3 items for the DEMs and incorrectly totaled them as 6 trillion, when the correct figure was 4 trillion. You listed the CARES Act under Trump, but ignored his added bailout/stimulus plan - and those 2 items also come to 4 trillion. Since I never argue it is impossible for me to change one. I simply shared correct facts. Further, the issue is not "Democrat vs. Republican". It is "Democrats & Republicans against America." And, of course, the loyalist partisan voters who keep it that way. My math was spot on. You are ignoring the argument and trying to change it to fit your narrative.
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 19:35:02 GMT -6
Post by franzsigel on Aug 18, 2024 19:35:02 GMT -6
You people arguing over left vs right don’t realize they are both controlled by the same people. They are wings of the same plane. You are more correct than anyone can guess, I expect them to lash out if you insult their master
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US debt
Aug 18, 2024 20:46:51 GMT -6
Post by Starbuck on Aug 18, 2024 20:46:51 GMT -6
Let's correctly characterize what happened. It was Trump himself who ordered the shut-down. 15 days. Then 30. And then he made, for all practical purposes, Fauci the acting president. Fauci /Trump then demanded trillions of dollars for bribe and force states to comply with a myriad of illegal orders. Too late, Trump recognized his own stupidity - and has been blaming others ever since. As for tax policy, I agree the less the better. But let's not pretend this a principled stance on Trump's part. He heard it a few weeks ago from a complete random stranger at an event in Vegas - and decided to use to as a bribe for votes. I'm glad that we can see more closely on tax policy. However, when it comes to the actions of the Federal government, you're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts. Trump didn't order a shutdown of the economy. Trump did stop people from flying into America from foreign countries -- First from China, and then expanding to other nations, including eventually the EU and UK. Let's also remember what was happening at that time. Covid and spread in China, with the Chi-Comms locking down the City of Wuhan (the city where the Bio-Lab that it escaped from is located). Many people were dying in China, and there were concerns as the virus spread around the world. People were getting sick in places outside of China in Asian nations (South Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, and Thailand). The virus then spread to Iran, and in Europe it was very bad in Italy before moving to France and Spain. Deaths then starting happening in America. Because our doctors didn't know much about the virus, there were actions to slow its spread. Trump's 15 Days to Stop the Spread were Fauci-inspired CDC Guidelines. Nothing was mandated by the Federal Government. There were also recommendations about "good hygiene," and for schools to be closed (going to remote learning) if there were evidence of the virus spreading. However, the Federal Government did not order any business to close. It was the individual states that did that. Democrat Governors and Mayors were the most aggressive in closing businesses, largely in hope of sinking the economy so that Trump would be defeated in 2020. For example, Gov Walz shutdown of restaurants, bars, museums, night clubs, churches, but specifically exempted Planned Parenthood. Walz was happy with women killing their unborn children, but wouldn't allow living ones to be baptized. In other places like hair salons/barbershops, hardware stores (but not big box stores), facilities for weddings, and schools were shut. Walz limited the number of people who could be in a home during Thanksgiving, and set up tip lines so neighbors could rat out other neighbors (just like the Stasi in east Germany did). Trump got bad advice, but did a lot in response to recommendations such forcing companies to make masks and build ventilators (recall the fear that America wouldn't have enough ventilators?). It was because State and Local governments -- and not the Federal Government -- that actually shutdown the economy and put people out of work on the scale of the Great Depression that there was wide-spread, bi-partisan calls for the government to help rescue those that the government harmed. In hindsight, a lot of what was done was simply wasteful and filled with fraud. I do agree that Trump got bad advice. That is forgivable since he clearly had not done his homework as to just how bad DC is. I also agree that state and local governments issued strict mandates - but Trump did in fact bribe them to do so and severely attacked those who pushed back, including the governors of Florida and Georgia. That showed horrendous judgment on his part. He realized his stupidity far too late and thought he tried to reverse course a bit, but the train was too far down the track at that point to be slowed - let alone stopped. He did realize just how wrong he had been - which Biden never did. That does give him slightly better marks than his successor. None of which accounts for the biggest issue of all. Trump has zero fidelity to the constitution and zero interest in the document now - even after 8 years of seeking the presidency non-stop. His betrayal of office and his betrayal of the constitution completley disqualifies him from the office. He and Harris are both extremely dangerous. She is a constitutional arsonist. He is a constitutional vegetable. I doubt our nation can survive either and will be beyond rescue.
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US debt
Aug 19, 2024 10:30:13 GMT -6
Post by luvmywammies on Aug 19, 2024 10:30:13 GMT -6
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US debt
Aug 19, 2024 10:43:59 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by moody on Aug 19, 2024 10:43:59 GMT -6
Loser rates mean more inflation. Keeping rates the same means stagnation. They will probably go for both inflation and stagnation. Some good old-fashioned, late 1970s-like, stagflation.
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