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Post by moody on Aug 26, 2024 13:19:39 GMT -6
1. Your claim is utterly false - and you know it. 2. Governors did what Trump bribed and coerced them to do. 3. Everyone dies and covid did not change the fate of a single human being, meaning neither Trump nor Biden saved or ended even one - that was and remained my position from day one. 4. This conversation is about the constitution and THAT is where Trump failed. I can only assume you do not understand how exercising one’s religion works. No one in the United States was prohibited from their free exercise of religion. So, Trump “bribed and coerced” only SOME governors? Because not every state had the same strict restrictions. Which ones did he bribe and coerce? And yes, we are discussing the Constitution. And you have done NOTHING to show how Trump stopped anyone from exercising their religion. I think Trump over-reacted to Covid, but he was in a Catch-22. He had dismissed major concern early on and took relentless abuse from the left, and from their media. Had he done less they would increased calls of him being a murderer. They already did that, even after he took these steps.
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momof3
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Post by momof3 on Aug 26, 2024 13:23:38 GMT -6
I can only assume you do not understand how exercising one’s religion works. No one in the United States was prohibited from their free exercise of religion. So, Trump “bribed and coerced” only SOME governors? Because not every state had the same strict restrictions. Which ones did he bribe and coerce? And yes, we are discussing the Constitution. And you have done NOTHING to show how Trump stopped anyone from exercising their religion. I think Trump over-reacted to Covid, but he was in a Catch-22. He had dismissed major concern early on and took relentless abuse from the left, and from their media. Had he done less they would increased calls of him being a murderer. They already did that, even after he took these steps. I think the whole world overreacted. Olympics were cancelled. March Madness was cancelled. All major sports teams stopped their seasons. None of that was because of Trump. And I agree he was in a Catch-22. No matter what he did, Democrats were going to pounce on him.
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Post by moody on Aug 26, 2024 13:30:58 GMT -6
I think Trump over-reacted to Covid, but he was in a Catch-22. He had dismissed major concern early on and took relentless abuse from the left, and from their media. Had he done less they would increased calls of him being a murderer. They already did that, even after he took these steps. I think the whole world overreacted. Olympics were cancelled. March Madness was cancelled. All major sports teams stopped their seasons. None of that was because of Trump. And I agree he was in a Catch-22. No matter what he did, Democrats were going to pounce on him. I hope that Trump learned a valuable lesson for his next presidency. Don’t try to please the ones who are never going to be pleased with anything Trump does, or talks of doing. It’s going to be impossible to please them so: 1. Hire better advisors 2. Consider all angles 3. Don’t worry about pleasing the left, who can’t be pleased.
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emerald
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Post by emerald on Aug 26, 2024 18:56:10 GMT -6
I think the whole world overreacted. Olympics were cancelled. March Madness was cancelled. All major sports teams stopped their seasons. None of that was because of Trump. And I agree he was in a Catch-22. No matter what he did, Democrats were going to pounce on him. I hope that Trump learned a valuable lesson for his next presidency. Don’t try to please the ones who are never going to be pleased with anything Trump does, or talks of doing. It’s going to be impossible to please them so: 1. Hire better advisors 2. Consider all angles 3. Don’t worry about pleasing the left, who can’t be pleased. LOL...he's already had his 15 minutes. He'll be lucky to stay out of jail. He's gonna get flattened in November.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 21:01:05 GMT -6
Upholding the constitution as each swears to do is a lofty standard? I believe it is the minimum - and essential - standard. you forgot to include the name of the last Presidential candidate to meet your standards I had several afternoon meetings but am now happy to revisit this extremely important topic. One, this is not about "my standards" - it is about constitutional fidelity. Two, there are two very different ways in which to understand the issue of constitutional abuse: stretching the boundaries through legislation in order to test the outer limit of governmental authority versus a wholesale betrayal by a president of the clearly stated rights of the individual for political gain or under the guise of expediency. Three, the former is common (and some might argue even necessary) whereas the latter is a travesty. Four, those presidents who have grossly abused the rights of the individual citizen on a massive scale via executive actions include Lincoln, FDR, George W., Obama, Trump, and Biden (interesting and extremely dangerous to the future of our nation that 4 of the worst 6 offenders have been our more recent chief executives covering the past 24 years). Five, the most recent president who at least attempted to abide within the constraints imposed by the document was Bush the Elder. Six, that is no coincidence.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 21:03:32 GMT -6
While true, it is not relevant to this excellent conversation. This is not about COVID. Nor about who dies, why, or when. It is about constitutional abuses and how that is a disqualifier for the office of the presidency. Regardless of which party is guilty of it. What constitutional abuses? Already detailed earlier in the thread.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 21:06:27 GMT -6
I think the whole world overreacted. Olympics were cancelled. March Madness was cancelled. All major sports teams stopped their seasons. None of that was because of Trump. And I agree he was in a Catch-22. No matter what he did, Democrats were going to pounce on him. I hope that Trump learned a valuable lesson for his next presidency. Don’t try to please the ones who are never going to be pleased with anything Trump does, or talks of doing. It’s going to be impossible to please them so: 1. Hire better advisors 2. Consider all angles 3. Don’t worry about pleasing the left, who can’t be pleased. Troubling that you failed to include "follow the constitution" on your list. Without that, the 3 you did mention (each with some level of legitimacy) are rendered meaningless.
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momof3
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Post by momof3 on Aug 26, 2024 21:22:24 GMT -6
What constitutional abuses? Already detailed earlier in the thread. Can you defend #2 on your list? How has Trump “abridged the freedom of speech”?
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 21:28:27 GMT -6
Already detailed earlier in the thread. Can you defend #2 on your list? How has Trump “abridged the freedom of speech”? Certainly. People were arrested when they gathered in forbidden groups to protest against the violation of their rights. They were also forbidden to attend public forums that had previously be open as designated places of public dialogue - such as city council meetings, school board meetings, and more. Shall we move to #3?
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momof3
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Post by momof3 on Aug 26, 2024 21:36:03 GMT -6
Can you defend #2 on your list? How has Trump “abridged the freedom of speech”? Certainly. People were arrested when they gathered in forbidden groups to protest against the violation of their rights. They were also forbidden to attend public forums that had previously be open as designated places of public dialogue - such as city council meetings, school board meetings, and more. Shall we move to #3? I need more info on that. Do you have a link? And does your link show what Trump did to “forbid” people to attend public forums?
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gotmewrong
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Post by gotmewrong on Aug 27, 2024 4:26:43 GMT -6
What constitutional abuses? Already detailed earlier in the thread. Instead of me going through 10 pages to see what you are blowing out if proportion, why don't you just write one sentence and tell me.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 27, 2024 7:22:42 GMT -6
Already detailed earlier in the thread. Instead of me going through 10 pages to see what you are blowing out if proportion, why don't you just write one sentence and tell me. Yes, I can provide it in a single sentence: check pages 5 and 6 of this thread, where it was posted and then quoted several times.
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Post by longtimereader on Aug 27, 2024 7:23:42 GMT -6
you forgot to include the name of the last Presidential candidate to meet your standards I had several afternoon meetings but am now happy to revisit this extremely important topic. One, this is not about "my standards" - it is about constitutional fidelity. Two, there are two very different ways in which to understand the issue of constitutional abuse: stretching the boundaries through legislation in order to test the outer limit of governmental authority versus a wholesale betrayal by a president of the clearly stated rights of the individual for political gain or under the guise of expediency. Three, the former is common (and some might argue even necessary) whereas the latter is a travesty. Four, those presidents who have grossly abused the rights of the individual citizen on a massive scale via executive actions include Lincoln, FDR, George W., Obama, Trump, and Biden (interesting and extremely dangerous to the future of our nation that 4 of the worst 6 offenders have been our more recent chief executives covering the past 24 years). Five, the most recent president who at least attempted to abide within the constraints imposed by the document was Bush the Elder. Six, that is no coincidence. Bush the Elder? LOL!!!!!! That jackass started the modern gun boat diplomacy cycle America is stuck in That jackass pushed for NAFTA That jackass signed and EO that stopped the importation of modern sporting rifles from outside the country.
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Post by longtimereader on Aug 27, 2024 7:24:31 GMT -6
Can you defend #2 on your list? How has Trump “abridged the freedom of speech”? Certainly. People were arrested when they gathered in forbidden groups to protest against the violation of their rights. They were also forbidden to attend public forums that had previously be open as designated places of public dialogue - such as city council meetings, school board meetings, and more. Shall we move to #3? That was the choice of GOVERNORS not the Federal government. I get your points but you seem to have serious TDS
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 27, 2024 7:40:41 GMT -6
I had several afternoon meetings but am now happy to revisit this extremely important topic. One, this is not about "my standards" - it is about constitutional fidelity. Two, there are two very different ways in which to understand the issue of constitutional abuse: stretching the boundaries through legislation in order to test the outer limit of governmental authority versus a wholesale betrayal by a president of the clearly stated rights of the individual for political gain or under the guise of expediency. Three, the former is common (and some might argue even necessary) whereas the latter is a travesty. Four, those presidents who have grossly abused the rights of the individual citizen on a massive scale via executive actions include Lincoln, FDR, George W., Obama, Trump, and Biden (interesting and extremely dangerous to the future of our nation that 4 of the worst 6 offenders have been our more recent chief executives covering the past 24 years). Five, the most recent president who at least attempted to abide within the constraints imposed by the document was Bush the Elder. Six, that is no coincidence. Bush the Elder? LOL!!!!!! That jackass started the modern gun boat diplomacy cycle America is stuck in That jackass pushed for NAFTA That jackass signed and EO that stopped the importation of modern sporting rifles from outside the country. The topic is not an endorsement or critique of Bush the Elder's presidency. The question at hand is presidential fidelity to the constitution - and specifically about the abuse of rights retained by the citizens. Have you any thoughts related to his actions on that point?
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