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Post by longtimereader on Aug 26, 2024 12:28:34 GMT -6
And the Democrats wanted everything shut down too. Gov. Walz closed all of the churches in Minnesota during Covid. But you do know that one can worship even if they aren’t physically in a church, don’t you? Our church held services out on the parking lot, with all of us sitting in our cars and listening to the service through our radio speakers because we got a frequency we could use. No one, absolutely no one, was prohibited from their free exercise of religion. Try again. One, that the DEMs followed Trump's lead is not exactly a ringing endorsement on your part. Two, parishioners, pastors, and churches experienced armed surveillance, arrests, fines, imprisonment (and clergy was even refused the opportunity to provide last rites, pray with members of their flock who were is hospitals, or comfort those who lost loved ones). Three, for you to claim "absolutely no one was prohibited from their free exercise of religion" is utterly false and you know that. Following and continuing to go forward once Trump changed his mind are two very different things, don't you think? I assume you wanted Sweden's solution to covid, am I correct?
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 12:32:49 GMT -6
I think you all are missing the big picture here. We lost over a million Americans to covid and it could have been a hell of a lot worse. The covid response was botched and cost lives. It could have cost 10's of millions of lives. We were very lucky. Obama had a pandemic response team all set up for Trump and warned him of the dangers. As soon as he was in office he disbanded them. He has blood on his hands. Anti-vaxxers are fruit loop crazy. Just look at RFK Jr. His shenanigans in Samoa(I think it was) cost many lives by convincing people not to vaccinate their kids against measles(again, I think it was). Real children died because of his bullshit. Vaccinations work for a reason, they are tried and true. Only fools and weak minds deny them. More deaths under Biden. While true, it is not relevant to this excellent conversation. This is not about COVID. Nor about who dies, why, or when. It is about constitutional abuses and how that is a disqualifier for the office of the presidency. Regardless of which party is guilty of it.
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momof3
Junior Member
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Post by momof3 on Aug 26, 2024 12:34:24 GMT -6
And the Democrats wanted everything shut down too. Gov. Walz closed all of the churches in Minnesota during Covid. But you do know that one can worship even if they aren’t physically in a church, don’t you? Our church held services out on the parking lot, with all of us sitting in our cars and listening to the service through our radio speakers because we got a frequency we could use. No one, absolutely no one, was prohibited from their free exercise of religion. Try again. One, that the DEMs followed Trump's lead is not exactly a ringing endorsement on your part. Two, parishioners, pastors, and churches experienced armed surveillance, arrests, fines, imprisonment (and clergy was even refused the opportunity to provide last rites, pray with members of their flock who were is hospitals, or comfort those who lost loved ones). Three, for you to claim "absolutely no one was prohibited from their free exercise of religion" is utterly false and you know that. If Trump would have demanded that life go on as usual, and the people died, you would be here claiming he killed people because he wanted things his way. And yes, some states were arresting and fining churches. That was the governors’ decisions. Here in Missouri, churches could still hold services. And my claim is not “utterly false”. Covid did not stop anyone from worshipping in their home. People worshiped with each other over Zoom. You do realize that people don’t have to be in a church to exercise their religion, don’t you?
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 12:35:55 GMT -6
Actually, he attacked the governors of Georgia, Florida, and Texas. He only changed his tune when he saw what his own stupidity and bad judgment was doing to damage his re-election campaign. Disqualifier. He changed his tune which I am fine with. Again hindsight is 20/20 that whole time was a cluster. Just look above at what folks like emerald really craved which was total lock down and total government control. I am not fine with "changing his tune" when it comes to following the constitution. That is not a solution. It is the very essence of the problem. Nothing worse than any president trashing the constitution based solely on a craven political re-election calculation.
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Post by Billy John Davy on Aug 26, 2024 12:39:49 GMT -6
He changed his tune which I am fine with. Again hindsight is 20/20 that whole time was a cluster. Just look above at what folks like emerald really craved which was total lock down and total government control. I am not fine with "changing his tune" when it comes to following the constitution. That is not a solution. It is the very essence of the problem. Nothing worse than any president trashing the constitution based solely on a craven political re-election calculation. who was the last Presidential candidate who met your lofty standards?
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 12:41:09 GMT -6
One, that the DEMs followed Trump's lead is not exactly a ringing endorsement on your part. Two, parishioners, pastors, and churches experienced armed surveillance, arrests, fines, imprisonment (and clergy was even refused the opportunity to provide last rites, pray with members of their flock who were is hospitals, or comfort those who lost loved ones). Three, for you to claim "absolutely no one was prohibited from their free exercise of religion" is utterly false and you know that. Following and continuing to go forward once Trump changed his mind are two very different things, don't you think? I assume you wanted Sweden's solution to covid, am I correct? You assume incorrectly. It has nothing to do with covid. I will not support any president or candidate who intentionally refuses to follow the constitution when confronted by circumstances and making decisions. And while I understand (without attacking or criticizing) the choice of some is to make their voting decisions based on an alphabet letter, or on current political expediency, I will not.
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Post by longtimereader on Aug 26, 2024 12:42:32 GMT -6
He changed his tune which I am fine with. Again hindsight is 20/20 that whole time was a cluster. Just look above at what folks like emerald really craved which was total lock down and total government control. I am not fine with "changing his tune" when it comes to following the constitution. That is not a solution. It is the very essence of the problem. Nothing worse than any president trashing the constitution based solely on a craven political re-election calculation. I understand what you are saying, I really do. On the old forum I just said why not declare Martial Law instead of the picking at the edges shit that was done. You do remember the world wide panic about Covid that now we all know was nonsense. But in the middle of it not so much.
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Post by gotscha on Aug 26, 2024 12:43:22 GMT -6
My suggestion? Vote policies, not person. Do you like the idea of price controls? Taxes on unrealized capital gains? Nine different pronoun choices on job applications? Endless wars? Then Kamala is your candidate. If you can stand a few mean tweets in exchange for lower interest rates and far less government regulation of the economy, then Trump is your candidate. I don't particularly like the man either, but there's no arguing that his policies are head and shoulders above the alternative - unless you're a socialist, that is. Yes, lets vote policies. Do you think corporations that basically have a monopoly should be allowed to gouge people? Taxes on unrealized gains? If it improves their net worth then it's realized. Also, no deductions. Endless wars? Who start this whackamole middle east bullshit anyway. Hmmm...Does the name Bush ring a bell? Let me know when a Republican solves the middle east aggression. Funny how Trump just comes out and says letting Putin have the Ukraine is what he would do. Yeah, I guess there would be no war right now. If only mean tweets were the problem. Unfortunately giving a 2 trillion dollar tax cut to mostly the wealthy is the gift that keeps on giving. Hugging dictators is really an answer that is best for America. Right? Yeah, let's talk policies.****Community Notes******* 1. Trump never said he would give Ukraine to Putin; its not his to give away. 2. 91% of American tax payers saw their tax rate fall under the 2017 rate adjustment bill. The percentage of taxes paid by the wealthy rose and the percentage and actual dollar amount paid by the poor fell. There is absolutely no evidence that grocery stores or anyone in the grocery market is price gouging. None. Higher prices are the result of mostly artificially decreased supply and increased demand. That's what happens when the government prints money to keep people at home instead of being productive. Until an asset is sold, any value it has is on paper only. You've obviously never bought or sold a security in your entire life or you'd understand that. Ask someone who had a big 'valuable' baseball card collection in the 90s what those are worth today. But if you're going to tax on an unrealized capital gains, you also have to refund those taxes when the gain ends up being far less or even a loss. That's a recipe for disaster. We aren't talking about GW Bush, but yes, he did contribute to the endless wars. After 9/11 we should have bombed the living hell out of the Taliban and left with the admonishment 'hand over Bin Laden or we'll do it again... and again.' But NO boots on the ground. Same goes for Saddam. Iraq is and always was an artificial, tribal country, with many disparate tribes glued together in one nation by the British and the French after WW1 for their ruling convenience. Same goes for most of Africa. So if you want to blame anyone, blame the British and French colonialists who drew the screwed up borders that exist today pretty much anywhere they once ruled. As for the rest of your lies, I think the community notes covers that.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 12:45:28 GMT -6
One, that the DEMs followed Trump's lead is not exactly a ringing endorsement on your part. Two, parishioners, pastors, and churches experienced armed surveillance, arrests, fines, imprisonment (and clergy was even refused the opportunity to provide last rites, pray with members of their flock who were is hospitals, or comfort those who lost loved ones). Three, for you to claim "absolutely no one was prohibited from their free exercise of religion" is utterly false and you know that. If Trump would have demanded that life go on as usual, and the people died, you would be here claiming he killed people because he wanted things his way. And yes, some states were arresting and fining churches. That was the governors’ decisions. Here in Missouri, churches could still hold services. And my claim is not “utterly false”. Covid did not stop anyone from worshipping in their home. People worshiped with each other over Zoom. You do realize that people don’t have to be in a church to exercise their religion, don’t you? 1. Your claim is utterly false - and you know it. 2. Governors did what Trump bribed and coerced them to do. 3. Everyone dies and covid did not change the fate of a single human being, meaning neither Trump nor Biden saved or ended even one - that was and remained my position from day one. 4. This conversation is about the constitution and THAT is where Trump failed.
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Post by longtimereader on Aug 26, 2024 12:46:57 GMT -6
Following and continuing to go forward once Trump changed his mind are two very different things, don't you think? I assume you wanted Sweden's solution to covid, am I correct? You assume incorrectly. It has nothing to do with covid. I will not support any president or candidate who intentionally refuses to follow the constitution when confronted by circumstances and making decisions. And while I understand (without attacking or criticizing) the choice of some is to make their voting decisions based on an alphabet letter, or on current political expediency, I will not. What President within that last 50 years fits that definition?
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 12:46:57 GMT -6
I am not fine with "changing his tune" when it comes to following the constitution. That is not a solution. It is the very essence of the problem. Nothing worse than any president trashing the constitution based solely on a craven political re-election calculation. who was the last Presidential candidate who met your lofty standards? Upholding the constitution as each swears to do is a lofty standard? I believe it is the minimum - and essential - standard.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 26, 2024 12:47:46 GMT -6
I am not fine with "changing his tune" when it comes to following the constitution. That is not a solution. It is the very essence of the problem. Nothing worse than any president trashing the constitution based solely on a craven political re-election calculation. I understand what you are saying, I really do. On the old forum I just said why not declare Martial Law instead of the picking at the edges shit that was done. You do remember the world wide panic about Covid that now we all know was nonsense. But in the middle of it not so much. I knew it from day one - and said so in real time.
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Post by Billy John Davy on Aug 26, 2024 12:49:12 GMT -6
who was the last Presidential candidate who met your lofty standards? Upholding the constitution as each swears to do is a lofty standard? I believe it is the minimum - and essential - standard. you forgot to include the name of the last Presidential candidate to meet your standards
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momof3
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by momof3 on Aug 26, 2024 13:06:03 GMT -6
If Trump would have demanded that life go on as usual, and the people died, you would be here claiming he killed people because he wanted things his way. And yes, some states were arresting and fining churches. That was the governors’ decisions. Here in Missouri, churches could still hold services. And my claim is not “utterly false”. Covid did not stop anyone from worshipping in their home. People worshiped with each other over Zoom. You do realize that people don’t have to be in a church to exercise their religion, don’t you? 1. Your claim is utterly false - and you know it. 2. Governors did what Trump bribed and coerced them to do. 3. Everyone dies and covid did not change the fate of a single human being, meaning neither Trump nor Biden saved or ended even one - that was and remained my position from day one. 4. This conversation is about the constitution and THAT is where Trump failed. I can only assume you do not understand how exercising one’s religion works. No one in the United States was prohibited from their free exercise of religion. So, Trump “bribed and coerced” only SOME governors? Because not every state had the same strict restrictions. Which ones did he bribe and coerce? And yes, we are discussing the Constitution. And you have done NOTHING to show how Trump stopped anyone from exercising their religion.
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gotmewrong
Junior Member
Posts: 374
Member is Online
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Post by gotmewrong on Aug 26, 2024 13:15:25 GMT -6
While true, it is not relevant to this excellent conversation. This is not about COVID. Nor about who dies, why, or when. It is about constitutional abuses and how that is a disqualifier for the office of the presidency. Regardless of which party is guilty of it. What constitutional abuses?
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