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Post by Starbuck on Aug 27, 2024 7:45:24 GMT -6
Certainly. People were arrested when they gathered in forbidden groups to protest against the violation of their rights. They were also forbidden to attend public forums that had previously be open as designated places of public dialogue - such as city council meetings, school board meetings, and more. Shall we move to #3? That was the choice of GOVERNORS not the Federal government. I get your points but you seem to have serious TDS Factually incorrect. Trump ordered the initial 15 day total shutdown. He followed that with an addition 30 day shutdown. After those initial 45 days, states, counties, and cities were coerced and bribed by Trump to continue the violation of constitutional rights. Further, Trump openly attacked governors - including those in GA, FL, and TX - who did not deny those rights to the level that he demanded. Those are the facts - as you well know.
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Post by gotmewrong on Aug 27, 2024 7:48:40 GMT -6
That was the choice of GOVERNORS not the Federal government. I get your points but you seem to have serious TDS Factually incorrect. Trump ordered the initial 15 day total shutdown. He followed that with an addition 30 day shutdown. After those initial 45 days, states, counties, and cities were coerced and bribed by Trump to continue the violation of constitutional rights. Further, Trump openly attacked governors - including those in GA, FL, and TX - who did not deny those rights to the level that he demanded. Those are the facts - as you well know. I believe you are remembering incorrectly.
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Post by longtimereader on Aug 27, 2024 7:48:54 GMT -6
Bush the Elder? LOL!!!!!! That jackass started the modern gun boat diplomacy cycle America is stuck in That jackass pushed for NAFTA That jackass signed and EO that stopped the importation of modern sporting rifles from outside the country. The topic is not an endorsement or critique of Bush the Elder's presidency. The question at hand is presidential fidelity to the constitution - and specifically about the abuse of rights retained by the citizens. Have you any thoughts related to his actions on that point? His EO on sporting rifles violated 2A because HE felt those guns were not needed to be owned by citizens.
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momof3
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by momof3 on Aug 27, 2024 7:49:07 GMT -6
That was the choice of GOVERNORS not the Federal government. I get your points but you seem to have serious TDS Factually incorrect. Trump ordered the initial 15 day total shutdown. He followed that with an addition 30 day shutdown. After those initial 45 days, states, counties, and cities were coerced and bribed by Trump to continue the violation of constitutional rights. Further, Trump openly attacked governors - including those in GA, FL, and TX - who did not deny those rights to the level that he demanded. Those are the facts - as you well know. You need to provide links to back up these claims you are making. Show what Trump did to “coerce and bribe” states, counties, and cities. Show us some specifics please. Show the “open attacks” he made to governors who allowed open public forums.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 27, 2024 7:58:09 GMT -6
Factually incorrect. Trump ordered the initial 15 day total shutdown. He followed that with an addition 30 day shutdown. After those initial 45 days, states, counties, and cities were coerced and bribed by Trump to continue the violation of constitutional rights. Further, Trump openly attacked governors - including those in GA, FL, and TX - who did not deny those rights to the level that he demanded. Those are the facts - as you well know. I believe you are remembering incorrectly. You know the statements above are 100% factually correct. You remember the 15 day shutdown order. You remember the 30 day shutdown order. You remember the 4 trillion dollar spending bills that coerced and bribed states to shut down schools, forced privately owned business to close (I know a family that lost their entire life savings), abandon public meetings, close libraries, close city parks, close gyms, close theatres, shut down transportation, and so much more - while arresting those who attempted to exercise their constitutional rights.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 27, 2024 8:00:40 GMT -6
Factually incorrect. Trump ordered the initial 15 day total shutdown. He followed that with an addition 30 day shutdown. After those initial 45 days, states, counties, and cities were coerced and bribed by Trump to continue the violation of constitutional rights. Further, Trump openly attacked governors - including those in GA, FL, and TX - who did not deny those rights to the level that he demanded. Those are the facts - as you well know. You need to provide links to back up these claims you are making. Show what Trump did to “coerce and bribe” states, counties, and cities. Show us some specifics please. Show the “open attacks” he made to governors who allowed open public forums. You know every word I have typed to be true, so I need not indulge your dodge. This is proven by the fact you have yet to dispute a single fact. With your great interest in links, feel free to provide any which disprove my accurate assertions.
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Post by gotmewrong on Aug 27, 2024 8:01:16 GMT -6
I believe you are remembering incorrectly. You know the statements above are 100% factually correct. You remember the 15 day shutdown order. You remember the 30 day shutdown order. You remember the 4 trillion dollar spending bills that coerced and bribed states to shut down schools, forced privately owned business to close (I know a family that lost their entire life savings), abandon public meetings, close libraries, close city parks, close gyms, close theatres, shut down transportation, and so much more - while arresting those who attempted to exercise their constitutional rights. I remember 2 weeks to slow the spread and then Nancy Pelosi and her cronies crying about how you are killing grandma if you go to spring break. I remember the Trump administration proposing a $600 billion bill to alleviate the harm done by the lockdowns by Dem leaders. I remember the Dems proposing a $3 trillion bill and not wanting schools opened a year after the initial shutdown.
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 27, 2024 8:06:46 GMT -6
The topic is not an endorsement or critique of Bush the Elder's presidency. The question at hand is presidential fidelity to the constitution - and specifically about the abuse of rights retained by the citizens. Have you any thoughts related to his actions on that point? His EO on sporting rifles violated 2A because HE felt those guns were not needed to be owned by citizens. You would have a point if Bush had attempted to confiscate guns already owned or had attempted to block American manufacturing. And I agree the 2nd Amendment cannot be voided via executive order. But presidents do have some authority over the import and export of goods under the constitution and federal code - which is what Bush leveraged. It was a good effort on your part - but falls short. Show me a violation of rights via executive order that would place him in the same category as Lincoln, Bush 2, Obama, Trump, and Biden. I do not believe you can - but will certainly acknowledge it if you find one.
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Post by longtimereader on Aug 27, 2024 8:17:56 GMT -6
His EO on sporting rifles violated 2A because HE felt those guns were not needed to be owned by citizens. You would have a point if Bush had attempted to confiscate guns already owned or had attempted to block American manufacturing. And I agree the 2nd Amendment cannot be voided via executive order. But presidents do have some authority over the import and export of goods under the constitution and federal code - which is what Bush leveraged. It was a good effort on your part - but falls short. Show me a violation of rights via executive order that would place him in the same category as Lincoln, Bush 2, Obama, Trump, and Biden. I do not believe you can - but will certainly acknowledge it if you find one. Interesting you rant about violations than support an exception, hummmm You support a distinction without a distinction
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momof3
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by momof3 on Aug 27, 2024 17:34:26 GMT -6
You need to provide links to back up these claims you are making. Show what Trump did to “coerce and bribe” states, counties, and cities. Show us some specifics please. Show the “open attacks” he made to governors who allowed open public forums. You know every word I have typed to be true, so I need not indulge your dodge. This is proven by the fact you have yet to dispute a single fact. With your great interest in links, feel free to provide any which disprove my accurate assertions. You made a claim about something you think Trump did. It is on you to prove your claim. How am I supposed to find a link that proves Trump did NOT do something? There is no way to prove a negative.
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Post by thegunplumber on Aug 28, 2024 8:57:34 GMT -6
All of which would be paid by the consumer No it is not paid by the consumer, it might be paid by stock investors. This is tax on corporate profits, it is not part of the cost of goods and services. Now a massive increase in tariffs like Trump is proposing would be paid by consumers. I see you, emerald, and Kammy studied economics at the same school. You all deserve a refund on tuition.
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momof3
Junior Member
Posts: 431
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Post by momof3 on Aug 28, 2024 17:03:03 GMT -6
You know every word I have typed to be true, so I need not indulge your dodge. This is proven by the fact you have yet to dispute a single fact. With your great interest in links, feel free to provide any which disprove my accurate assertions. You made a claim about something you think Trump did. It is on you to prove your claim. How am I supposed to find a link that proves Trump did NOT do something? There is no way to prove a negative. I guess Starbuck couldn’t find a link to prove his claim…
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 28, 2024 21:45:02 GMT -6
I am currently evaluating various governors as a potential write in vote. Probably my best option.
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Post by Billy John Davy on Aug 29, 2024 5:35:38 GMT -6
I am currently evaluating various governors as a potential write in vote. Probably my best option. there are 2 responses to this, the 1 you'd like to get: "Please keep us informed on your search for a candidate you can write in that satisfies your self imposed purity tests, the rest of us lesser beings can learn so much from you" and the response you will get: "No one fucking cares who you're going to write in you self righteous pompous ass"
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Post by Starbuck on Aug 29, 2024 7:08:01 GMT -6
I am currently evaluating various governors as a potential write in vote. Probably my best option. there are 2 responses to this, the 1 you'd like to get: "Please keep us informed on your search for a candidate you can write in that satisfies your self imposed purity tests, the rest of us lesser beings can learn so much from you" and the response you will get: "No one fucking cares who you're going to write in you self righteous pompous ass" This is clearly a well-received and highly relevant thread given the number of times it has been visited. Of course, the risk of a well-read and well-received thread is that it also invites and exposes those who are not capable of, or interested in, productive dialogue. There are tens of millions of American voters who are not satisfied with the choice between Trump and Harris (Biden). It is well worth the conversation to learn why. This conversation is our only hope as a nation in pursuing a healthier political process. Tedious and non-productive personal invective is, while far too common, never helpful - and is something I choose to avoid. I invite you to participate in a higher level of conversation.
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